Posted on Tuesday, 11/03/2009 - 8:13 a.m. PST — by GoldenPoppy
There is no evidence that casinos and gambling cause problems so I welcome the idea of one at Point Molate. I remember when the San Pablo casino was planning to open that many said it would cause many problem from gambling addiction to crime. None of that happened. So if Contra Costa County is supporting the idea, I strongly support it. There are many unemployed who would have jobs in and around such a casino.
Connie Acton, Pinole
Joined: Oct 2006
Current Posts: 10
Connie Acton, Pinole
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 3
Connie - You may want to check into some data on the matter. Robberies and other crimes in San Pablo increased by more than 100% after the introduction of slot machines at Casino San Pablo in 2005.
For every dollar generated in gambling, it costs the cities and communities around the casinos between $1.8 and $3.00 in property loss, and impact on social and municipal services (crime prevention, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, family counseling, family court intervention, addiction counseling, addiction management and rehab, police services, etc.)
The forum does not allow posting of links, but you can look up the 2006 Problem Gambling Prevalence Survey prepared by the CA. Office of Problem and Pathological Gambling. The last thing California needs is another casino. There are already 58 tribal casinos in the state, and gambling impacts negatively minority, disabled and unemployed communities the most.
But since you are ok with casinos, let's put them in Pinole.
Joined: Oct 2006
Current Posts: 10
I would be happy if they would put casinos in Pinole. When they opened the San Pablo casino, they had so many applicants for jobs that I was asked to help interview them. The usual staff couldn't handle the load. This to me illustrates that jobs are badly needed in this area. You haven't convinced me with your stats about crime and gambling addiction. In addition much of the city of San Pablo's income is from the casino. I think casinos are a win/win solution to a city with a high unemployment rate.
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
Re your comment "...jobs are badly needed in this area." The situation is more complex. I haven't got it all figured out, but so far I think it goes like this (re San Pablo casino):
-Get a poor population to vote for a casino telling them there will be jobs or the city will go bankrupt without it or whatever.
-The additional revenue attracts a smoothie city manager( who lives in another county in this case) who dominates an uninformed city council.
-Over time he hires only people who don't live in the city (or often the county), and who have no vested interest in the welfare of the residents or the community. Rather than finance residents for higher education or internship jobs, he strategically manipulates every angle to keep the residents in ignorance and poverty.
-He takes over the Redevelopment Agency and starts pumping money out of the city via building projects, consutants, etc. Essentially nothing changes the life style or in anyway assists the city residents or resident owned businesses.
-He carefully manipulates a few players when necessary by allowing funds in the budget:chicken-feed for the Rec Department and a couple of good paying jobs to keep them quiet. (The Rec people don't make or interfere with any city decisions. They just want more of the people's money.) Then more $$ so the city council can give themselves a raise. Then $1M for a soccer field for the College when only a small percentage of San Pablo kids attend there, so in essence it is subsidizing the students of the surrounding more affluent cities. Then, of course,there will be funds for important 'players' -the city council, etc. in the form of retirement benefits. I don't have the figures yet. He, himself, is a 'double-dipper' and collects a retirement salary plus a current salary. But nothing has changed for us except higher taxes, hundreds of units of renters (so-called low and moderate income) all walled in and causing an increase of calls for police - some involving weapons. All decisions are made by people who don't live here and get excellent salaries and benefits paid for by the poorest people in 6 counties. The stats?
-approximately $12M casino per year.
-out of 190 city jobs, 30 are city residents -mostly part-timers at the Rec Department.
-The city debt is over $90M. The finance director has financed or re-financed over $140M in debt to the people of San Pablo. At least 25% of bond money is for debt service and goes to
Wall Street.
-No jobs were stipulated for any residents in all the construction though we have a high population of manual laborers. Nor have any programs been created to train for the under or unemployed. Everything approved by city council -three latinos, one black, one white. This is mucho million bucks.
-As of a few weeks ago foreclosure was at 935. It is less now but only because investors are are buying up properties and putting in renters. This means betwwen 2 and 3 thousand men, women and children have been tossed out of the city.
Golden Poppy, I could go on and on. I plead with the city council for jobs for the people. They ignore me. I complain to the city manager to put up an interactive, multi-lingual website to involve the people and I get an email from the mayor saying "Get off his back." (Rather charming gentlemanly verbage from a civil servant.) I plead for Town Meetings. They ignore me.
The point is once you let in a casino you set up power structures and the people lose the modicum of control they now have. Moreover, the money the casino gets is being sucked out of the surrounding communities and goes to 'investors', i.e. Wall Street. These people have no scruples. You, your chidren, your grand-children are less than a digit to them, to make a profit from or be discarded. And they now control the nation through control of credit and their lobbyists.
The rape of this country by the international bankers precluded the rape of this city which precluded the tragic rape of the girl. They're all inter-connected. How? The people of America were fleeced by the Bankers and left unprotected by their legislators and the regulators. They were put in a defenseless (feminine, if you will) position. Our city "leaders", have done everything to keep the people in poverty, and with the current economic downturn, created a situation of desparation where the rules go out the window. The rape of the girl is a direct and inevitable result of lack of employment causing and increase in crime, sometimes tragic and violent. It has happened throughout our history and happens in all countries. And you want more? You may want to rethink this.
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
Re your comment "...jobs are badly needed in this area." The situation is more complex. I haven't got it all figured out, but so far I think it goes like this (re San Pablo casino):
-Get a poor population to vote for a casino telling them there will be jobs or the city will go bankrupt without it or whatever.
-The additional revenue attracts a smoothie city manager( who lives in another county in this case) who dominates an uninformed city council.
-Over time he hires only people who don't live in the city (or often the county), and who have no vested interest in the welfare of the residents or the community. Rather than finance residents for higher education or internship jobs, he strategically manipulates every angle to keep the residents in ignorance and poverty.
-He takes over the Redevelopment Agency and starts pumping money out of the city via building projects, consutants, etc. Essentially nothing changes the life style or in anyway assists the city residents or resident owned businesses.
-He carefully manipulates a few players when necessary by allowing funds in the budget:chicken-feed for the Rec Department and a couple of good paying jobs to keep them quiet. (The Rec people don't make or interfere with any city decisions. They just want more of the people's money.) Then more $$ so the city council can give themselves a raise. Then $1M for a soccer field for the College when only a small percentage of San Pablo kids attend there, so in essence it is subsidizing the students of the surrounding more affluent cities. Then, of course,there will be funds for important 'players' -the city council, etc. in the form of retirement benefits. I don't have the figures yet. He, himself, is a 'double-dipper' and collects a retirement salary plus a current salary. But nothing has changed for us except higher taxes, hundreds of units of renters (so-called low and moderate income) all walled in and causing an increase of calls for police - some involving weapons. All decisions are made by people who don't live here and get excellent salaries and benefits paid for by the poorest people in 6 counties. The stats?
-approximately $12M casino per year.
-out of 190 city jobs, 30 are city residents -mostly part-timers at the Rec Department.
-The city debt is over $90M. The finance director has financed or re-financed over $140M in debt to the people of San Pablo. At least 25% of bond money is for debt service and goes to
Wall Street.
-No jobs were stipulated for any residents in all the construction though we have a high population of manual laborers. Nor have any programs been created to train for the under or unemployed. Everything approved by city council -three latinos, one black, one white. This is mucho million bucks.
-As of a few weeks ago foreclosure was at 935. It is less now but only because investors are are buying up properties and putting in renters. This means betwwen 2 and 3 thousand men, women and children have been tossed out of the city.
Golden Poppy, I could go on and on. I plead with the city council for jobs for the people. They ignore me. I complain to the city manager to put up an interactive, multi-lingual website to involve the people and I get an email from the mayor saying "Get off his back." (Rather charming gentlemanly verbage from a civil servant.) I plead for Town Meetings. They ignore me.
The point is once you let in a casino you set up power structures and the people lose the modicum of control they now have. Moreover, the money the casino gets is being sucked out of the surrounding communities and goes to 'investors', i.e. Wall Street. These people have no scruples. You, your chidren, your grand-children are less than a digit to them, to make a profit from or be discarded. And they now control the nation through control of credit and their lobbyists.
The rape of this country by the international bankers precluded the rape of this city which precluded the tragic rape of the girl. They're all inter-connected. How? The people of America were fleeced by the Bankers and left unprotected by their legislators and the regulators. They were put in a defenseless (feminine, if you will) position. Our city "leaders", have done everything to keep the people in poverty, and with the current economic downturn, created a situation of desparation where the rules go out the window. The rape of the girl is a direct and inevitable result of lack of employment causing and increase in crime, sometimes tragic and violent. It has happened throughout our history and happens in all countries. And you want more? You may want to rethink this.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 1
I'm really offende by the way that the press has become so biased, this article about the casino's sounds like it was written by someone with an axe to grind. It is almost a personal attack on the administrator and supervisor
Joined: Oct 2006
Current Posts: 10
It certainly sounds like someone who is more interested in his crackpot theories than rational discussion.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 3
It would seem that Golen Poppy suffers more from the delusion of crackpot theories than others. If you choose not to educate yourself with the empirical data that has been corroborated time and time again that 1) the revenue produced from tribal casinos does not flow back into the hosting communities 2) that crime accelerates dramatically with casinos - the poster child for 'good' tribal casinos is the Mohegan Sun - where crime increased 300% in the Ledyard area after the casino's arrival 3) that 'tribes' shop venues and target improverished towns with weak city and county officials and ordinances, then that is your choice and you shall remain delusional - believing the poppycock conjured up by avaricious developers about how wonderful life will be with casinos.
Given an opportunity to deploy businesses that do not peddle vice such as alternate energy production - for which millions of dollars are available in federal development funds - which would you choose? a casino? or an ethical business that provides sustainability for the community and its surrounds?
The CCC supervisors don't care about you or me. They betrayed you and me - people upon whose tax dollars their salary depends - by selling you and me out. And they did it not for economic well being, they did it in revenge. Revenge that their naitivite at the time of the Lytton development led them to be bamboozled and not get an appropriate revenue share or governance share. Revenge that Sacramento did not grant the 35 mile exclusion zone for the Lytton casino. They didn't cut their deal with Jim Levine and Michael Derry because they actually thought the Pt. Molate Casino was a good idea.
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
Raki:I very much like your post. It is thoughful and informative. But you start with an attack. I realized lately I have been doing the same, so when I read you I see myself coming 'round the corner' and know I must clean up my act, control my anger at the gross injustices and ignorance (willful or other wise) to stay constructive. Lately heared an author say "People often don't remember what you say, but they always remember how you made them feel." We can't get people on board to build better communities and counter the profiteers if we punch them in the nose before informing them.
Don't mean to preach. Use what I say if you can. If not, toss it.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 3
Appreciate the comments/feedback Nobody. Developing collective wisdom is the key to congruity and moving forward. When a knowledge pool is built with information and voices from many angles, the light on any issue becomes clearer and clearer. This post stream opened with an assertion that there exists no evidence that casinos are bad for the communities in which they domicile. A counter of information that provided information that indeed there is evidence that casinos are damaging to communities was offered with pointers on how to access that information.
A retort was offered that such thinking was delusional. I have learned the very hard way in life that for many people, thinking is just a process of re-arranging prejudice, and prejucide is fueled by experiential and folkloric belief systems.
I have also learned that people who refuse to consider broader information than what they have digested, even when led to the proverbial water hole, have an outcome they are dedicated to and will re-arrange reality to shape to that outcome.
Logic does not prevail in such situations, because the predudice is rooted in sub-conscious mechanisms. Only a jarring - usually of emotion - and always personal, opens prejudiced minds to consider other outcomes and realities.
I'd very much like to live in a world where civil discourse and learned investigation framed discussion and action, but that is not how life works.
Equally today's media has created an environment where any individual can speak, and anonymously as we do here, and also created an environment where social networks are exploited by agenda massagers.
So without knowing if Connie from Pinole placed her comments at the behest of Black Oak Development or if she has a truly personal belief that casinos are good and create jobs, I can only offer to Ms. Connie of Pinole the oppty. to access 360 degree information to evolve the shape of her notions.
A study has been done of the no. of 911 calls, the numbers of logged crimes by category from 2004 to 2007 involving the Lytton Casino in San Pablo.
If Ms. Connie of Pinole is interested, or if anyone else is interested, I'd be glad to IM or PM a copy of the study. Unfortunately the board does not allow for links or I would place it directly.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 361
Interesting read - a thread of intellectual bantor and foreplay.
On this topic and the discussion? Bottom line - historically, I have found that for most folks convinced (by person or visual cue) if the offered "solution" scratches the itch ..NOW. They go for it! and this continues over and over for most people. From solution to solution - without any second thoughts on the cause of the itch (dang blood sucking fleas!).
If you haven't figured it out yet, best not jump to conclusions. Study some history, visit an Indian Reservation that is not connected to gaming, live amongst the Native Americans- listen and learn, learn about business tactics (better yet work for a big corp as an exec.), learn your state and local laws and their history and attend some city council meetings...after that? You might be closer to understanding.
In closure - and off topic...might I highlight a very insightful comment?
"an environment where social networks are exploited by agenda massagers"
On that note
"L i v e" life - vicariously through your own personal experiences and opinions
--- Per Me (CCKitty)
(Otherwise, you are just a blood sucking shmuck)
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
Thanks for not being offended at my suggestion. I am less than agile in anticipating response to my "facts/analysis" approach (see Wikipedia INTJ), but after a lifetime of observing without comment I have decided it's time to speak up. Also, I am not prone to flattery, but I want to give you this feedback: You write well. Things well written are premised on clear thinking. I appreciate that. We may differ in the future (so far so good), but I will always be interested in your views.
- re "collective wisdom" I recall from the 'olden days',i.e. the '60's, that it only takes 5% of the people to form a 'movement', (whatever that is). I am playing with the idea that purely aggressive people rise to positions of power in a nation, in a community simply on the basis of their aggressive tendencies (and possibly 'people skills'), and not because they are wise, knowledgable or have good intentions for the people or want to see a society that's functional and sustainable. People that are more research oriented, more prone to observation, perhaps more introverted tend to get bull-dozed and discouraged when dealing with....others. This observation seems trivial, but may have huge ramifications. If those of us who want a system (as I call it) that works, we shall have to learn how to get more pushy, but without ruffling feathers. I have no skill at this. I don't even know how to learn. I am getting nowhere in San Pablo trying to get the city council to start investing in the people, in jobs to stop the inevitable spiral into crime and violence. But I press on.
-re "not how life works..." Indeed it doesn't. It's not working well at all. But perhaps it could. Keep writing. Get pushy -nicely, of course. Do you live in a Ca city? Check your city budget. The one here is a most fascinating can of worms. The RDA is the key, the link to Wall Street.
-re "media": Surely they could be doing so much more. I sent a ton of info to the reporter who covers this area, but he printed nothing. I think some of what's occuring is agaisnt the law and told the city council so. For instance, the RDA is to be made up of resident electors per the law, i.e. qualified voters who reside in the city. Now it's run by the city manager, a double-dipper who not only doesn't live in the city, he doesn't even live in the county. And clearly he has no interest in the people. It must be fun to spend millions and millions of other people's money with absolutely no check on it. And one must feel truly elevated in status to be surrounded by nothing but people in poverty. Kind of like a colonist in India or South America....supported by elite locals -the city council. After many months of being angry, I remembered......observe a litter of, say, kittens. There will often (if not always) be one that positions itself at the feeder, laying his/her body over most of the food so as to monopolize it for himself. Moreover, if you set him/her accross the room at his own feeder, he returns to the original place repeating the same behavior. It seems he doesn't just want to have more. He wants to be sure the others have less. So far I've decided this is also people behavior. I dare say with some trepidation there is no point in being angry at them any more than being angrey at the kitten. But they must be put in check. It would cost nothing for the manager or city council to stipulate in contracts for jobs for the people. But they don't do it. It appears to me they want to rule over a people who are kept ignorant and in poverty. All I can do is speak up. Will it matter? We shall see. Just been informed a special meeting with the local religious leaders in a few days. I shall speak up again, with my stats. Will see what happens.
-re "logic does not prevail" ....Ahh, but the advantage of gathering relevant info and arriving at accurate conclusions is ...voila ! PREDICTABILITY. And, over time, they may start listening. For instance, a long time ago at the General Plan meeting I told the group (after studying the international economic situation) that bad things were about to occur to our little town's $$$ situation. The city planner told me (nicely) to " shut up- we're doing visions". Of course, he only wants to build more units for more poor people here, putting the city more millions in debt and making this town a permanent city for only the poor. What does he care? He's paid over $100k and he doesn't live here and never will. But now that the budget's slashed, I get to say "told ya so."...nicely, of course. Now I'm trying to explain that putting the city millions more in debt (through the RDA-run by the city manager)to build massive retail projects would be a disaster in these economic times. Will they listen? We'll see.
'Nough said. What's this study? I don't do this comuputer stuff well. Never did IM. Can I google the study? I want to put up some sort of site up so San Pablo people can get info. Got any tips on how you do it? Regards, take care, and keep writing.